Mar 17, 2010

still cling to Japanese translation?

I read threads in tadoku.org almost everyday and lately I've been feeling mad and irritated to read some of the comments, but I don't feel like commenting my opinions there, because the discussions, well, I'm reluctant to call them discussions but I don't know how they should be put into so..., done there is just insane in my opinion, so I decided to whine here anyway. ha ha

I don't know why there still exist some members who doubt the golden three or more rules of Tadoku. That is; don't use dictionaries if you're in beginning level, start from very easy materials such as picture books even you claim to be an advanced learner, and enjoy only those materials which you find quite intriguing, and so on.

Why, why is it there are still some people who believe that memorizing English words and phrases in Japanese is not bad at all.
It's just absurd.
Why they're so stubborn and cling to Japanese?
Why can't they stay away dictionaries and just emerge themselves in the huge affluent beautiful world of English language?

The thing I came to realize while reading some threads in tadoku is this,

Those, who believe English can be learned by using Japanese translation, seem to take languages as mere collections of codes,
and those, who are strongly against using Japanese to learn English, see languages as the wholeness of not only codes and data but also feelings and emotions.

The former are usually good at thinking rationally and tend to be skilled decoding. They might think the decoding and the understanding is the same thing. If you're only interested in reading newspapers or books about your specialities, then it doesn't matter a lot if you're only skilled in decoding. They are non-fiction, right?

For example, many of the English specialists such as translators and interpreters are required to decode but they have no need to feel, because the materials they have to struggle with are mostly non-fiction. Furthermore, their works are not impromptu like our daily conversations. If you have to translate English to Japanese in mind, then it definitely takes much longer to understand than understanding English as English. But the professionals are required to be accurate rather than fluent, so they are allowed to have some time to prepare for the jobs. In this case, it's quite natural for them to encourage learners to use Japanese if they are intending to be ones.

On the other hand, the latter can't take languages as codes but full of feelings, so they're not satisfied with naively translated Japanese. They sometimes can't translate quite easy English and you might think that they don't understand the English. But it's too early to conclude that way. In many cases, because they understand and feel the English quite deeply, they're more careful to attach certain Japanese to that English. They are trying to feel English as much as possible and they know Japanese only works to hinder to reach that goal.

... it's still half way through, but I've got to go back my real life now. mmm

8 comments:

ひまわり said...

こんにちは、ひまわりです。
わたしも、このところtadoku.orgの掲示板みては、かなしいというか、(言われっぱなしで)くやしいというか・・・、なんとも、いや~な気分でいたのです。なんでいつまでもこうなのかな~、って。いや~~な気分。うえ~ん。(すみません、わたしのは、ただ嘆いているだけで、ぜんぜん、言葉にも、話にも、なってませんね。ちゃんとことばとして紡ぎだす気力も失せた、ってかんじ・・・)
また、たのしいことして、遊びたいですね~。きょうは久しぶりに神保町を歩いてきました。って、ただ、歩いただけですけどね。また、どこかで、お目にかかりたいですね。

Mrs. Malone said...

ネットは難しいよね。表情とかでおぎなえないんだから、相手を思いやること、ふだんのつきあい以上に大切なのに・・・

(スレッド見ると、揚げ足取りやっているのが男性で、なごませようとしてるのが女性、みたいな構図が・・・両者がうまく影響しあえばいいのになあ)

これが、悪意だけでもって投稿されているようなら、一言きつく書きますが、一種のあやうさ、(ここには詳しく書けないけれど)を感じるので、おとなしくしてます。

今度は、お花見オフを呼びかける予定4月中旬以降。でも昭和公園かも・・・遠いよね・・・

ひまわり said...

昭和公園ね。そうね、ちょっと遠いかもね。ま、いつか、そのうち、どこかで合流します。

きのうは、ちょっと、頭に血が上りすぎてました(笑)
こちらにお邪魔して、ようやくちょっと気がしずまってきたというか、ようやく、おちついて、ものを読めるように、なったような気がする。今朝、あらためて、still cling to Japanese translation? の記事を読みました。うん、そうだなあ・・・と、思うことしきり。
(それで、もう一回、コメント書きたくなった)

掲示板のはなしにもどるけど、わたしはネットにまだまだ不慣れで、書かれている事柄の、内容や、表現に、容易に心を乱されすぎるようです。はあ、ちと、つかれたよ。。
(だったら、みなけりゃいいんだけどね、ほんとは・・・)

「一種のあやうさ」というのは、たしかにそうですね。ま、わたしも、なにが言えるわけでもなし、このまま、しずかに、していようとおもいます。

それじゃ、またね!

Mrs. Malone said...

掲示板の様子が気になるときには、スレッドをのばすよりも、自分で新投稿をのせてしまうのが、いちばんてっとりばやかな・・・。
と思って、ときどき Huh? な投稿をのせてみたくなるのでした・・・

せにょさんとこでも、オフ開いていいっていわれてるんだけど、ひまわりさんはゆっくり出てこれそう?春休みは忙しいかあ?日程おしえてくれたら、いくらでもオフ呼びかけするよ!!

Whiskers said...

Hi, emmie-san!

I felt so relieved to read your comment here!

You know, I am most embarrassed seeing this development of 'that' tree. I just had no idea how it would turn out like that....

I can say I learned that I have to be more careful. I believe that no one has bad intentions there, but it's gone too far, become a 'word' game.

I've been wondering whether I should make it clear that I never used the word 'sodateru' in my first post. But I guess it doesn't matter whatever word it was. Sigh.

Mrs. Malone said...

Hello Whiskers-san,

You know, I'm quite disappointed to see the lengthy thread, full of bad mannered harsh messages... I didn't put a reply to your comment, but I was really happy to see you there. You're too busy to frequent there, so.
I do love to read your idea about English learning, so please show up some time again when the right time comes.

I wonder you still hesitate to open up your blog... It doesn't matter if you're going to write frequently or not, but I can easily have a contact with you anytime when I fee like it. ha ha

I've not told anyone yet, but I'll be wroking as an assistant, hojyoshokuin? mitaina... of Mr. Sakai on Tuesday at Dentu with two more Tadokists, who work on Wednesday and Friday. He can't manage everything by himself and Tadoku books are always needed to be put away properly on the shelves^^;

NEO said...

なになに!?
私もオフ会に行きたいな~。

いや~、掲示板にうんざり。話すならがんがん主張を言えるんだけど、顔が見えずに文章に書くっていうのは折り合いがつかなくなるよね。語彙が自然にたまって、いつのまにか自分の言葉として発信している事を自分自身で経験しているし、生徒も見ている。言いたい事はたくさんあるけどね~

Whiskersさんの言いたい事は、ちゃんと理解していますからね~。お疲れ様でした。

Mrs. Malone said...

NEOさん、遅くなってしまった、ごめん。
とあるひとから、NEOさんがオフ会に出たいって書いてたよーと教えてもらった・・・

掲示板ねえ、別に議論するのはいいのよ。多読は効果がない、という声があっても、それはそれだし。
問題はマナーでしょ。
言葉に関心を寄せている人の集まりのはずなのに、どうしてああなるのだ?